For The Grown-Ups: How to Talk to Your Kids About Gun Violence
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The Ten News Season 3: Episode 47
Special Report Part 1: 🎙️ Jody Baumstein, a licensed therapist with Children's Healthcare of Atlanta Strong4life, is here with advice for grown-ups on how to support kids through tough times such as gun violence. In part 1 of today's special report, Jody will cover: 🔎 How to help kids learn to identify & express their feelings 🙋 How to create a safe space for kids to share & ask questions 🫶 How to teach kids strategies for coping in a healthy way
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TRANSCRIPT:
Ryan Willard 00:01
Hey, there. I'm Ryan Willard.
Pamela Kirkland 00:03
I'm Pamela Kirkland. And this is The Ten News. We've got a lot of messages asking for help on talking to kids about gun violence and recent events.
Ryan Willard 00:14
So we at The Ten News put together a two-part Special Report. This first part is specifically for grownups and covers the best ways to have conversations with kids about gun violence.
Pamela Kirkland 00:24
The second part is for families and is our main episode, where we hope to give some context to the tough news about gun violence.
Ryan Willard 00:33
This episode is part one, our creator and executive producer Tracy Leeds Kaplan is a parent herself, and she sat down with Jody Baumstein, a licensed therapist with Children's Healthcare of Atlanta Strong 4 Life. Now, we're gonna throw it to them. and listen.
Tracy Kaplan 00:47
Welcome to The Ten News. Can you tell all of our Ten'ers who you are?
Jody Baumstein 00:52
Sure. Well, thanks for having me. It's great to be with you. So I'm Jody. I'm a licensed therapist, and I work with Children's Healthcare of Atlanta Strong 4 Life. And I also have a private practice outside of that.
Tracy Kaplan 01:04
While we're so happy to have you today. Unfortunately, it is under some tough circumstances and news. Today we're going to talk about how parents, how can parents talk to their kids about gun violence and school shootings. So just to start off, should they talk to their kids about gun violence? And what happened last week in Nashville?
Jody Baumstein 01:26
Well, it depends on the child. So there isn't one clear answer, we want to be thinking about how old the child is how they're doing developmentally, and if it's appropriate to talk to them. So if we think about a toddler, for instance, and they're not exposed to this, there's just no good reason to bring this up, it's only going to cause fear, it's only going to cause confusion, and really create unnecessary worry for them. So we want to be mindful that if they're not exposed to it, and there's just no real reason that we need to talk about it, that we don't put that into there, into their world, unnecessarily. However, if your child has been exposed in some way, and this might mean that there's even a remote chance that they might hear about it on the school bus or in their classroom, then we absolutely do want to have a conversation about it, because we don't want to leave them to have to make meaning of it and figure it out on their own.
Tracy Kaplan 02:23
And so notice, it can cause anxiety, right? If this is going on, and kids are hearing about it from other places, and they're kind of like, why are my parents not talking to me about it?
Jody Baumstein 02:33
Right. And I think this is one example. But just in general, with all the things happening in the world, if we're silent, what we're sometimes giving the message of is that certain things are too big and too scary. They're off-limits. And it's not going to stop kids from having questions or having feelings about it. But they're going to be alone in it. And that's really the opposite of what we want. So when we start a conversation, what we are already doing at that moment, which is really powerful, is showing them that we can handle it. And nothing is too big, nothing is too scary. And nothing's off limits for us. Because if we don't talk about it, and they're hearing about it, they're not going to feel safe to come to us, they're gonna go away from us when they have questions. And that's really not what we want. We want them to come toward us.
Tracy Kaplan 03:21
Now I'm a parent, and I'm thinking, how am I gonna have to fake it till I make it? But, how could I prepare myself to have this conversation with my kids?
Jody Baumstein 03:30
Well, I think you already touched on it a little bit, which is acknowledging the human in you. We're not going to become robots all of a sudden, and not have feelings. That's just not realistic. And so I think it is important to just start by accepting what it is that you do feel.
Tracy Kaplan 03:50
So, you know, if you're a parent, you've kind of never thought about how you feel about the situation, you feel like, you know, there's a chance your kid is getting exposed? Or is it of an age that you feel ready to have this conversation? How do you start?
Jody Baumstein 04:09
This is just great practice in general, as humans start with an open-ended question. We forget how powerful those are. Because a lot of times, again, if we are really overwhelmed by our own emotions, what we can accidentally do is use leading questions. So let me give you an example. Well, you're not scared about that, are you? If I ask in that way, what I'm doing is I am telling a child, if you are scared, don't say it. Or there's something wrong with you. You're you should feel ashamed. And that's really not what we're trying to do. But a lot of times we do that because we're uncomfortable, and we're scared about what they're going to say. But if you can take a deep breath and just ask them, How are you feeling? or what have you heard? This is a great starting point, what have you heard about this? Or what questions do you have? Because then they're really given a chance to guide the conversation. What might be top of mind for us might not even be on their radar or a priority for them. So when you start by asking, What are you thinking? What are you feeling? What have you heard? What questions do you have, they get a choice to decide to take it where they need it to go. And then you sit back. Now, this is the hard part because we have to accept that we're really uncomfortable at this moment. But we have to show a lot of restraint. And let it linger. Here's the other thing. We might bring this up. And your child might be like, Oh, I wasn't expecting this conversation. This is why it's even more important than these moments to let it linger for a minute. It's okay if they don't have an answer right away, don't jump in and fill the space to ease your own anxiety. Because again, then what we're kind of showing them is I'm too uncomfortable with this. But when you do sit back and you let it linger for a minute, you're showing them you can handle this. So if they start fidgeting, if they're tearful, don't fill the space with your words, let them have that feeling, reflect, let them know you see them, and give them space to keep talking.
Tracy Kaplan 06:21
Yeah, I mean, when something like this happens that is so you know, big and scary. I'm sure lots of different emotions can come up for kids. You know, what's something that as a parent, we should be kind of looking out for?
Jody Baumstein 06:35
Well, keep in mind that kids show emotions in lots of different ways. And so the way we might respond to something isn't necessarily how they're going to. And so yeah, you might get the kid who is kind of fidgety, they're having trouble focusing. Others might be tearful. And then some might have irritability, anger, outbursts, and things like that. But the bottom line is, what they're telling us is they're experiencing an emotion and they don't know how to communicate it. So you want to be really curious about what the behavior is. And be curious about that, rather than responding with judgment or blame or shame, because then it just shuts it down. It doesn't create space to explore it further.
Tracy Kaplan 07:19
Right. Right. And I think that that point is really key that, you know, we think about a lot is, you know, what we may be thinking about as an adult may not be what, what our child is thinking about. So really giving them the space to share, rather than just coming in with like, let me tell you what happened or, you know, like, we may actually be telling them stuff that they don't know about yet and may not even want to know about. So giving that space of just, what have you heard, how are you feeling about this, right?
Jody Baumstein 07:50
You bring up a good point too, because even with older kids who are exposed and we're having a conversation, you don't need to overshare. And that's why it's actually a really helpful tool to let them guide the conversation because you might not need to go to a certain level of detail unless they're bringing it up. And so when you sit back and let them guide, they're in control, and you can see what they actually want to talk about. It also gives you an opportunity to correct misinformation, which we know is constantly swirling around out there. It's hard enough for adults to tease through all the noise. And so for young kids, this is also a really good opportunity to teach them about credible sources, and how they get their information. And how do they check things? And of course, we want to be gentle with it, when we are correcting them, we don't want to make them feel ashamed. But we want to use the opportunity to teach them how to think critically and make sure that the information they are receiving is actually accurate.
Tracy Kaplan 08:55
I think that's really important because especially in the aftermath of a shooting, you know, there's a lot of news organizations are really rushing to get the story out, and at a certain point, you know, things are are very chaotic, and they may not have the best information at the time. So you do really need to be careful and think about like what is the source. You know, is this verified? Because, you know, when when the situation is so chaotic, you know, the facts sometimes take a little while to come out. Okay, so here's a big one. What if your kid asks, Is the school safe?
Jody Baumstein 09:31
It's gonna that will come up that's going to be a question we can anticipate. What we want to be really careful about here is that we don't lie to them. It's gonna be really tempting because you see them they're scared, their eyes are wide, looking for some magic fix and answer and we don't have it. Now, things are not black and white all or nothing, so we have to help them find the sweet spot. How do we do this? We use evidence. And we teach them strategies that they can use not just now but in the future. So helping them understand that, yes, this is really scary. We want to validate that we don't want to dismiss that. And also, let's look at the data. This is still rare.
Tracy Kaplan 10:19
Mm hmm. For sure.
Jody Baumstein 10:20
And then, and then we need to focus them on what is within our control. Okay, so what are the drills and procedures and things that we do every day? Or regularly, I should say, in schools to keep us safe. What do we do outside of school? What do we do when we have questions? What do we do when we have concerns or we're not so sure about something, and you're grounding them in these tangible things that they have control over so that we don't feel so helpless and so out of control? But again, we just really want to be careful here that we don't fall into the trap of lying to them and saying things like, that will never happen here. Don't worry about that. Because you can't guarantee it. And B what we're accidentally doing in that moment is really dismissing and minimizing their fears. When the reality is fears are a very normal response to this because it's big and scary.
Tracy Kaplan 11:12
Yeah, no, that's a really good point. Any specific strategies, you know, if your kid is, you know, saying like, Oh, I feel really anxious today about going to school.
Jody Baumstein 11:22
Yeah. So again, we always want to start by just validating their experience. Because we know in these moments, we're rushed, we need to get out the door, we're like, Come on, don't give me a hard time, let's go, let's go. Well, you have to remember that if we want kids to become adults, who listen to themselves, we can't tell them to override it when they're young. Now, there is still a sweet spot, we can feel and not be completely consumed by our emotions. And that's really what we're trying to teach kids, that helps them become resilient as they get older. So we want to acknowledge the feeling because we know if we keep resisting it, it will persist and it will get bigger. So let's name it. Okay, so you're feeling anxious, that makes so much sense to me, where do you feel in your body, you name it, that's already gonna make it a little bit smaller. It's really the avoidance that fuels anxiety, it makes it bigger. So we're going to help them name it, but then we're going to teach them concrete things they can do to help with it. So one thing you might teach them is called grounding. And it's a really easy exercise because they can use it wherever they are. And nobody even has to know they're doing it. But what you do is you teach them how to use their senses, to bring them into the present moment. So have them look around and notice a couple of things that they can see in their environment. And while they're doing this, they're taking some deep breaths, they're regulating the body, which helps the brain kind of come back online and think a little more clearly. And what are some things that you can reach around you and touch? So actually have them pick up some things they can touch and hold? Some things they can smell, here, maybe even something they can taste. But what you're doing in this moment is teaching them how much power they have to refocus their energy and their attention on the present moment. Our brain spirals out of control really quickly, with all the unknowns and the question marks. And what happens, it goes to the worst-case scenario, that's just what happens in the brain. It's not always working with us. But we can teach kids that they have power over them. And they have control over what they focus their energy on. And so it's not saying that the anxiety necessarily goes away, but we're trying to make it more manageable. And when we bring them back into the present moment, and they feel their feet planted on the floor, and they're touching something or they're smelling something, it's a lot harder for the brain to be lost in those future worries.
Tracy Kaplan 14:01
Yeah, you know, and I think to just also, like, reminding ourselves, and we talk about this a lot on the show, and amongst the team is it's also okay to take a break to step away from the news, you don't have to consume every little piece. You know, that. Just being mindful of when, when emotionally you need to take a break from the news and what you're hearing and seeing.
Jody Baumstein 14:33
Right, and I think this is a really good reminder for adults. For us about role modeling, you know, it's kids, it's not just what we say it's what we do. We know that that's what they're going to respond to. And so I think it's about creating healthy habits for the whole family. And we know that if we have those constant alerts on our phone, whether we're saying it or not, it does keep us in this really heightened revved-up state And again, even if we're not conscious of it, we know that that is creating tension in the body, we are holding on to it in different ways. We might not be aware of it, but it might be causing headaches, and stomach aches, and we might be lashing out at our partner or boss. And so teaching kids how to tune in from an early age and notice, oh, yeah, when I take a break from this, I feel a little more grounded or settled or peaceful. Or, you know, not even just the news, but social media, kids who might be starting to get into that.
Tracy Kaplan 15:32
When I was preparing for this, I reached out to a number of families and asked them like, what are the questions you're getting at home? How are you talking about this, you know, really wanted to hear what was happening. And I think the hardest part was hearing back, how many parents said to me that the kids have just are just kind of shrugging their shoulders off, oh, this happens. And how should we be thinking about that?
Jody Baumstein 16:03
Let me start by saying, developmentally, there are also some things to consider kids in certain parts of their development are really focused on themselves. And it's nothing wrong with them. They're not selfish. They're not cruel in any way, it's just developmentally appropriate, we expect that at certain points in their development, they're going to be really concerned with themselves and not really terribly concerned with other people. So there is that element. Now, I also want to recognize that sometimes desensitizing is a way to actively avoid something that feels way too big and overwhelming. So I think this is why we have to remember this is not a one-and-done kind of conversation that is ongoing. You know, some kids will say, Yeah, we do the drills all the time, like, Oh, well. And then when something does come up, you notice that that armor that they've essentially been hiding behind, falls apart, when you really create space, and you don't hear that and then say, okay, I guess they're fine. But you kind of normalize the fact that, yeah, I get that this becomes really familiar. And something can be familiar and scary. At the same time.
Tracy Kaplan 17:22
This has been super wonderful. You know, I think just to wrap, you know, I'm curious. You know, I do find also that, you know, kids can be so empathetic, and wonderful, and thoughtful at this age, about their peers, and also about, you know, people that they've never met that are that, you know, they can relate to, you know, any last thoughts about how we can, you know, help them support each other?
Jody Baumstein 17:53
Yeah, I think, a lot of things. I think we all respond to trauma in different ways. And I think helping kids and ourselves understand that there is no wrong way. And so your child might want to get involved. Because they feel really helpless. And that's something they have control over. support them in that others might not want to that might feel like, it's just too much. And that's okay. But I think we have to really honor what it is that they're experiencing and support them through it in the way that works for them, not necessarily the way we would do it for us. And know that their feelings can change from moment to moment and day to day, and we need to keep holding space for that in everyday conversations. There's just so much heaviness in the world. And we know that kids are absorbing it in their own way. And it might look very different than how we do. Yeah. And that's also just, you know, a final reminder with that, too, is that you know, they're not giving us a hard time, we really have to be curious about what they're trying to communicate because they don't have the words yet to tell us.
Tracy Kaplan 19:09
Yeah, that's really helpful. Any particular resources that you would want to direct parents to and we'll put them you know, in our show notes as well.
Jody Baumstein 19:21
A lot of things. So I think if you're looking for a mental health professional, a great starting point is your pediatrician. Sometimes people forget to ask, but they have great relationships in the community, and they might know people that they trust and that they would be able to recommend to you. The schools also have a lot of great resources. Sometimes you might not even be aware of what is embedded in the school support system, whether it's through social work or counseling or outside providers who come in. So always checking with what's already in place at your school. But also counselors and social workers at the school have great relationships in the community as well and can give you referrals, and talk to other families, just like we would say, Hey, who's your dentist, we need a new one. Who's anybody in your family seeing a therapist, you will not believe how many people are already seeing a therapist, whether it's for themselves or their child. And the more we talk about it, the more normal it becomes. And we can share resources with each other. We also have a lot of resources on our website, which is strong for life.com. And that is all about raising healthy, safe, and resilient kids. So we've got you covered with articles, handouts videos, have printables that write a lot of the things that we talked about today, you know, feelings, charts, and different ideas for how to talk to your child through different coping strategies, language for how to teach them and how to modify it. So we've got a ton of stuff on there, and it's all free and available for anybody who wants it.
Tracy Kaplan 20:54
That's great. And thank you so much, Jody, this has been super helpful, and we look forward to having you back for more.
Pamela Kirkland 21:03
Thank you so much for joining us. Jody, your insight was super helpful for me, and I hope it helped everyone listening, too. We've also included additional resources in the show notes.
Ryan Willard 21:14
If you have any questions, feedback, or topics you want us to cover, feel free to email us hello@thetennews.com. Next up is part two of this special report which is for our kid listeners, though grownups are absolutely invited and welcome to listen.
Pamela Kirkland 21:29
The Ten News is a coproduction of Small But Mighty Media and Next Chapter Podcasts.
Ryan Willard 21:34
The Ten News creative team is practicing grounding and includes Tracey Crooks, Pete Musto, Tessa Flannery, and Logan DeYoung.
Pamela Kirkland 21:41
Our production director is Jeremiah Tittle. And our executive producers are Donald Albright and show creator Tracy Leeds Kaplan.
Ryan Willard 21:49
I'm Ryan Willard.
Pamela Kirkland 21:50
I'm Pamela Kirkland. And thanks for listening to The Ten News. Take care of yourselves.
